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Mormon Transhumanists: Lincoln Cannon

The New God Argument Begins

The New God Argument begins with the assumption that we, our human civilization here on Earth, probably will not go extinct before becoming an advanced civilization. This is the faith position, and we will refer back to it a few times as we proceed with the argument.

The faith position does not require any particular perspective regarding the amount of time it might take for us to become an advanced civilization. It could happen within coming decades or across the span of eons. Either possibility, or any of the infinite possibilities between them, is sufficient for the faith position. Moreover, from the outset, the faith position does not require any particular understanding of what we must do to be considered an advanced civilization. Perhaps we’ll cure cancer or end hunger. Maybe we’ll voyage to the stars. Any of these possibilities or any set of many other possibilities is sufficient for the faith position. As we go along, we’ll introduce some assumptions about what we probably would do as an advanced civilization, but your imagination is the best starting point. Consider the future of our civilization as you think it should be. Imagine a future worthy of your trust. Assume we can and probably will eventually become such a civilization, no matter how long it takes, so long as we work at it. That is the faith position.

Of course, while embracing the probability of desirable futures, we should not ignore the possibility of undesirable futures. Complacency may prove quite as dangerous as hopelessness, and both are risks we should seek to mitigate. Thus, we intend our formulation of the faith position, that we probably will not go extinct before becoming an advanced civilization, to convey an optimal balance between trust in desirable futures and recognition of attending risks. Consider, for example, the attitude we should take if we were to discover that a large asteroid is headed directly at Earth and will destroy all life on the planet when it hits us in five years. While some of us may languish in despair and others may passively await a chance or supernatural remedy, most of would naturally take up the faith position and begin planning for and building a means of destroying or displacing the asteroid, even while feeling anxious or simultaneously hoping for a lucky break or supernatural assistance.

Remark that the faith position is valuable beyond the scope of the argument we’re presenting. There is a kind of truth that depends on intentional creation. For example, it may not be true that the materials at your dock are organized into the form of a ship, but with some trust in and work toward such a possibility, you just might make it true. Most of us have a similar perspective regarding the future of our civilization. Maybe it will be horrible, but we’ll trust in and work toward a wonderful future because we think it could make the difference. Some will argue that the optimism of the faith position is not realistic, as demonstrated by the many occasions when our experience differs from our preference. To the extent we lack power, unassisted optimism may not be realistic. However, to the extent we have power, optimism certainly is realistic, as we use our power to create the experience we prefer. Moreover, since we don't infallibly know the full extent of our power, even cautious optimism beyond our certain knowledge is wise. For example, you may or may not have what it takes to persuade someone to love you, but you have a better chance if you're optimistic enough to make the phone call.

. . .

As announced, Joey and I will present the New God Argument at the Sunstone symposium on Saturday. The session has already received attention from bloggers and symposium attendees, as well as Mormon and Christian apologetic web sites. We expect the presentation to be well attended. If you're planning to attend, or trying to decide whether to attend, read up on the following ideas and come prepared to consider the rest of the argument.

Evolution Theory

Fermi Paradox

Great Filter Argument

Simulation Argument

King Follett Discourse

Published Monday, August 04, 2008 8:20 PM by Lincoln Cannon
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Comments

 

Zen said:

Excellent post - I just blogged about how this new kind of civilization will be a kind of phase change, meaning we can apply some of the lessons of statistical mechanics to civilization change.
August 4, 2008 11:49 PM
 

Brent Allsop said:


I must say, as a devout atheist, I am loath to give up my faith and hope for something more than what this argument so powerfully demands we accept.  Like the Fermi paradox, these kinds of arguments that are so rational are very troubling to me.  But, despite their necessarily compelling rational, I haven't given up faith and hope for more than this yet.

August 5, 2008 8:50 PM
 

Joey said:

Neither have we, Brent. The furthest along the road to theism that this argument can get you is the notion that God is at least this -- an advanced civilization more benevolent than ours. With you, I hope for far more than this. Acceptance of this argument is not exclusive of such hope.
August 6, 2008 1:24 PM
 

Brent Allsop said:

But if you accept this argument; that must also entail children being isolated from “more benevolent civilizations” and such forever right?  And is that nothing more than a state of eternal damnation for both the isolated children and the ‘advanced civilizations more benevolent than ours?’
August 7, 2008 10:21 AM
 

buraianto said:

I can't think of any reason why the New God Argument would require a more benevolent civilization to remain isolated from us forever.  It doesn't even claim that such a civilization is isolated from us now.  Though that is the way things seem to some of us.

As you know, Mormonism asserts that we are not completely isolated now, and our goal is to have a more complete relationship with God in the future.
August 7, 2008 4:47 PM
 

Brent Allsop said:


Forget the fact that this so called “we are not completely isolated assertion” is so tenuous and unreliable that a significant portion of the world doubts such abilities very rationally and justifiably so.

Have you seen movies like “Ghost”?  Where the ghosts do all they can to try to influence this world / communicate with us?  Such ghost stories scare me to death!  I see religious assertions that we can communicate with such neither worlds as nothing more than this kind of hellishness.  Whenever I try to imagine such, all I can imagine is things like thousands of ancestor ghost, angels, and Gods of the 9/11 terrorists, trying in utter futility to communicate with them, before they flew into those buildings.  And then imagine all those spirits, with the terrorists, showing up in the spirit world after such.  Some people jump up and down in what they think is joy, when the ‘bad’ ones get taken away, in whatever form.  (no wonder there is so much hate in this world, given everyone thinks this way)  But that’s not what I feel if such happens to some of our brothers and sisters.

The visions Dante painted of hell are quite terrible.  But to me any such ghostly / neither world beliefs are at least as bad.  I am of course perfectly aware of how Mormons claim all this is only temporary for any set of beings.  But perfect Gods must know all, and have the ability to feel everyone’s pain, and there by must suffer equally with anyone that is isolated and suffering anywhere.  So any more benevolent beings in parent worlds, all the way up, must suffer the same damnation watching and wishing or trying in futility to help, for as long as there are new children going through what our Gods are subjecting us to.

And if you believe future advanced benevolent beings will be able to accomplish such for their children without such hideous isolation, even if only temporary.  Why, then, can’t our Gods accomplish such?

Some of us have faith and hope that perfect elimination of the need to be so isolated / dead will be easily accomplished within the next 100 years fore everyone, forever more.  Of course long before we have any kind of Godly powers or knowledge.

August 8, 2008 7:37 AM
 

Mormon Transhumanists: Lincoln Cannon said:


The Faith Position
Abstract: For practical reasons, we should trust that we probably will not go extinct...
August 30, 2008 11:16 AM
 

Mormon Transhumanists: Lincoln Cannon said:

The Faith Position
Abstract: For practical reasons, we should trust that we probably will not go extinct...
September 10, 2008 6:21 AM

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About Lincoln Cannon

Lincoln is a founding member, director and president of the Mormon Transhumanist Association. He has thirteen years of professional experience in information technology, working primarily for companies in the systems management industry, such as Symantec and Novell. He holds a masters degree in business administration and a bachelors degree in philosophy from Brigham Young University. Lincoln served a mission to France for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, is married with Dorothée Vankrieckenge, a French national, and is father to three bilingual children.

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